The concept of Trinity has no legs to stand on

· Agnosticism, Christianity
Authors

Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, the first Muslim missionary to USA in 1920s, in his early days in USA, to initiate his missionary work, went into a store and bought three pencils and chose to pay for the price of only one pencil. When the shop keeper protested and asked for further payment, Sadiq retorted, you do believe in one in three and three in one. Don’t you? After a little quibbling the stage was set to start talking about Islam and Christianity!

The testimony of One God is every where in our universe and Trinity is no where to be seen. The universe and all life forms on our planet earth speak of One Creator and not three. If god the son and the Holy Ghost did not create any thing then they are not equal to God the Father, and hence not equal partners in ‘Trinity.’

I invite all our Christian brethren to also ponder over other religions that existed before Trinity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism or the aborigines of America and Australia.

Arius aught to have been declared a saint rather than a heretic! The term ‘Arianism’ is used to refer to other nontrinitarian theological systems of the 4th century. Arianism is the theological teaching of Arius (CE 250–336), a Church priest, who was first ruled a heretic at the First Council of Nicea of 325, later exonerated in 335 at the First Synod of Tyre, and then pronounced a heretic again after his death at the First Council of Constantinople of 381. The Emperor Constantine was baptized by an Arian Bishop. The Roman Emperors Constantius II (337-361) and Valens (364-378) were Arians or Semi-Arians.

If a Christian gives up Trinity, he or she still has the choice to become a Unitarian Christian, a Muslim or a Jew, before opting to be an agnostic or an atheist.

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Messiah of this age writes:

The God of Islam is the same God who is visible in the mirror of the law of nature and is discernible in the book of nature. Islam has not presented a new God but has presented the same God Who is presented by the light of man’s heart, by the conscience of man, and by heaven and earth. (Tableegh-e-Risalat, Vol. VI, p. 15).

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A five minute video clip about the Council of Nicaea:

The Christian masses, in general have very limited understanding of thedoctrine of ‘Trinity,’ and how it came about. All of us will do ourselves a great favor if we are to learn about the history of early Catholic Church, I recently did. In a Teaching Company course titled

the Catholic Church: A History, Prof. William R Cook very eloquently describes the role of the four Ecumenical Councils in the creation of the doctrine of ‘Trinity.’ The last of these Councils was the Council of Chalcedon. Itis considered by the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the Old Catholics, and various other Western Christian groups to have been the Fourth Ecumenical Council . It was held from 8 October to 1 November 451 at Chalcedon. Prof. William R Cook writes in the booklet of this course, “The Council of Chalcedon met to deal with the question of the nature(s) of Christ. The Council condemned the Monophysite position, declaring that Christ has two complete natures, human and divine.” Even the very basic concept of ‘Trinity,’ was not formulated until the second Ecumenical Council held in Constantinople in 381. Prof. Cook writes, “The Council of Constantinople reaffirmed the Nicene formula and emphasized that the Holy Spirit was indeed God–an unequivocal affirmation of the Trinity.” [1]

The testimony of One God is every where and Trinity is no where to be seen in our universe. The universe and all life forms on our planet earth speak of One God and not three.

Historically also other than the Christians we find no testimony of Trinity in other regions of the earth and other religions. Even looking at the local population of the Middle East, Jews are strict monotheists. Even among the Christians we still have a sect named Unitarians.

The word Trinity is not even mentioned in the New Testament. It is stated in 1890 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica, “The Trinitarians and the Unitarians continued to confront each other, the latter at the beginning of the third century still forming the large majority.”

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read, “Unitarianism as a theological movement began much earlier in history; indeed it antedated Trinitarianism by many decades. Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The Road which led from Jerusalem to the Council of Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”

If reading is not your cup of tea then I invite you to watch this debate that covers Trinity and other issues pertaining to alleged divinity of Jesus, a noble prophet of God.  The Muslim debator is Ahmad Deedat and topic is, Is Jesus God:

 

I invite all our Christian brethren in the words of Albert Einstein, “The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.”

Let them ponder over other religions that existed before Trinity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and Confucianism.

With a little effort One God can be traced in all religions, but the three persons and one substance of Trinity is no where to be seen, except in Pauline dogma.

In an article published in Muslim Sunrise in 2006,

The Concept of God in Buddhism, Imran Ghumman traces the concept of One God in early Buddhism. He writes:

“‘Confess and believe in God (Is’ana) who is the worthy object of obedience…… Oh strive ye to obtain this inestimable treasure’ …said Buddha as quoted by King Ashoka in one of his inscriptions at Pardohli, a rock located in the Eastern bank of the river Katak, twenty miles from Jagan Nath, India.”

He outlines at least 7 proofs for his thesis that Buddha believed in One God, the One God of Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus and Muhammad, may peace be upon all of them. Read Imran Ghumman’s article online:

http://www.muslimsunrise.com/dmddocuments/2006_iss_1.pdf#page=19

Turning from Buddhism let me share some thoughts about Taoism.

The description of Tao, presented by Lao-tzu, is quite similar to the attributes of God mentioned in the Quran. Here are some quotes from Taoism:

‘The great Tao is vast. He is on the left and He is on the right. All creatures depend upon Him, and the care of them tires Him not. He brings creation to completion, without seeking reward. He provides for all His creation, but requires nothing for Himself, so He may be considered small. All creatures turn to Him for their needs, yet He keeps nothing for Himself, thus He may be named ‘the Supreme’. He does not consider Himself great and because of this He is truly Great.’

Again we have another description:

‘Looked for but not visible, such a Being may be colourless. Listened for but not heard, such a Being may be called Silent. Grasped for but not caught, such may be called Concealed. No one can comprehend the ultimate source of these three qualities, but they are found in one Being. Though not luminous yet below Him there is no darkness. Being infinite He cannot be described. All His shapes keep returning to nothingness, thus we can say He is Shapeless; His image is without form. He is beyond comprehension (being the rarest of things). Try to reach His beginning, no beginning can be seen. Seek His end, no end can be perceived. Therefore, follow the ancient ways and improve your present.’

Also, in another verse the description of Tao runs as follows:

‘He is indivisible and His true nature cannot be grasped. All creation originates from Him. He existed before heaven and earth were created. He is One and alone without form or sound. He exists independently without any support. Nothing changes in Him. He is in constant motion, but never tires. He can be called the Begetter of the universe.’

These quotes I have just copied from the book by Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad

Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truthfrom the chapter Taoism. The book can be read online:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad writes about Confucianism in his book

Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truthin the chapter Confucianism:

Mencius said:

‘It is said in the ‘Book of Poetry’: ‘Heaven, in producing mankind, Gave them their various faculties and relations with their specific laws. These are the invariable rules of nature for all to hold, And all love this admirable virtue.’

The term “Heaven”, as understood by Mencius is a Conscious Being and it is interchangeable with our term of God. Heaven may be seen to symbolize the active and conscious creative principles of God. Thus he says:

‘This is illustrated by what is said in the ‘Book of Poetry,’—

“Be always studious to be in harmony with the ordinances of God,

So you will certainly get for yourself much happiness;’

Classical Confucianism, undoubtedly, presents man as a creation of God rather than just a product of unconscious nature. For Confucius, the ultimate goal in attaining knowledge of one’s own nature is to attain harmony with God, and this is the ultimate of man’s vision of heaven. This belief is quite similar to the Quranic teaching in presenting man as having been created according to God’s attributes.

… and follow the nature (attributes) of Allah after which He fashioned all mankind… (Al Quran 30:31)

The book can be read online:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

Now let us turn to the aborigines of Australia. This is examined by Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad in his book

Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truthin the chapter,The Concept of God among the Aborigines of Australia:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

Christian apologists may be able to poke hole in some individual details but the overall argument is overwhelming. The traces of One God can be found even after religions have gone through distortions over the centuries but Trinity is found no where. Time to move to One God, if not the One God of Islam then at least One God of Unitarian Christianity or One God of Judaism!

This universe speaks of One Creator and not three creators.

Allah says:

“Say, ‘Have you seen your associate-gods whom you call on besides Allah? Show me then what they have created of the earth. Or have they a share in the creation of the heavens? Or have We given them a Book so that they have an evidence therefrom?’ Nay, the wrongdoers promise one another nothing but deception.” (Al Quran 35:41)

And again:

“He has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and He has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and He has scattered therein all kinds of creatures; and We have sent down water from the clouds, and caused to grow therein every noble species. This is the creation of Allah. Now show me what others besides Him have created. Nay, but the wrongdoers are in manifest error.” (Al Quran 31:11-12)

Intelligent Design movement in USA has its origin in Evangelical Christianity, they want to teach Design and Creation in schools as opposed to evolution, but despite their belief in trinity, never in their literature have I seen mention of three creators, even though mention of the Creator or one creator does come around.

One of the biggest contributions of biology in the last two centuries has been the fact that all living beings come from one lineage and inheritance and not three. Read on, and in the words of Sir Francis Bacon’s advice, ‘Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.’ Erasmus Darwin grand father of Sir Charles Darwin, was perhaps the first in suggesting that all life shared the same origin and that the secret of life lay in ‘filaments’ that are shared by all living beings, without exception. So, the 30 million life forms on this planet can be a witness of one God only and not three!

Richard Dawkins quotes Francis Crick in his book

The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing:

Heredity is all-or-none. That’s digital. But what neither Mendel nor anyone else before 1953 knew was that genes themselves are digital, within themselves. A gene is a sequence of code letters, drawn from an alphabet of precisely four letters, and the genetic code is universal throughout all known living things.

Life is the execution of programs written using a small digital alphabet in a single, universal machine language.

For further details please see November 2008 Alislam-eGazette:

http://www.alislam.org/egazette/eGazette-Nov2008.pdf

There are two different lines of reasoning we are following in this thread for there being One God and not three.

Firstly, that mankind has lived in different lands and times and not just in the Middle East, and not only just for 2000 years, when Christianity started. There is history of religion spread all over the world and much longer than 2000 years. Prophet Moses (as) was almost 1300 years before Jesus Christ, may peace be upon him. The prophet Abraham, may peace be upon him was almost 1800-2000 years before Jesus Christ. So, if trinity was the reality, what was revealed to these earlier people and people away from the Middle East? Do we find any evidence of trinity?

Secondly, what does biology tells us? Is there no creator and atheists are right? Is the data more compatible with One Creator, multiple creators or three creators? Additionally, what does physics tell us, we have not started to develop that reasoning yet.

Going back to the historical evidence, now I want to go to North and South America. Fazal Ahmad from UK, examines this issue in an article titled,

The Native American Beliefsin Review of Religions:

http://www.alislam.org/ror/Dec_2006.pdf

Incidentally this volume of Review of Religions also has an additional article

Divinity and Trinity – A Scriptural Comparisonby Arif Khan from UK.

According to Encyclopedia Britannica, Joseph Priestley discovered 10 new gases including oxygen and a gas later identified as carbon monoxide. Just like his contributions to science his writings on religion are masterly and earned him the friendship and tutorship of President Thomas Jefferson. Priestley argued, for example, that the real ‘mystery’ of the Trinity was that so many Christians believed it. For Jesus did not teach it, the Bible did not proclaim it, and Reason could not honor it. Jesus lived as a human being, claimed to be nothing more than the ‘son of man,’ whose mission was to show all humankind how they should live and what God expected of them. The Old Testament honored monotheism, as did the New Testament, rightly read.

(Edwin Scott Gaustad. Sworn on the altar of God: a religious biography of Thomas Jefferson. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1996. Page 112.)

Priestly further writes:

“Now I ask, wherein the doctrine of Trinity differs from a contradiction? It asserts, in effect, that nothing is wanting to either the Father, the Son, or the Spirit, to constitute each of them truly and properly God; each being equal in eternity and all divine perfections; and yet that these three are not three Gods, but only one God. They are, therefore, both one and many in the same respect, in each being perfect God. This is certainly as much a contradiction as to say that Peter, James and John, having each of them everything that is requisite to constitute a complete man, are yet, all together, not three men, but only one man.”

(Joseph Priestley. A history of the corruptions of Christianity Page 321. Published by The British and foreign Unitarian Association in 1871.)

Whole of his book can be read at www.archive.org or Google.com, books section.

A very vidual display of symbols of Trinity is St Patrick’s day parade. But that isa chance for Christians toreflect about Trinity to see if there is any truth in it and for Muslims and Jews toinvite our Christian brethren to pureMonotheism.

Saint Patrick’s Day is annually celebrated, on March 17, the day on which Saint Patrick died. The day is a national holiday in Ireland. In Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States, it is widely celebrated but is not an official holiday. All over the world we see the symbol of Saint Patrick and Trinity in the form of three leaflet shamrock on display. It is said that Saint Patrick’s Day is celebrated by both Christians and non-Christians by wearing green, eating Irish food and/or green foods, imbibing Irish drink, and attending parades.

How to refute this symbol has been discussed in this thread and additional material can be sought in an article

St. Patrick’s Day and the Christian Trinityin Spring of 2008 volume of Muslim Sunrise:

http://www.muslimsunrise.com/dmddocuments/2008_spring.pdf

Another very related Knol is titled,

The Council of Nicaea and three others:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/the-council-of-nicaea-and-three-others/1qhnnhcumbuyp/76 #

References

  1. Prof. William R Cook. The Catholic Church: A History. The Teaching Company, 2009. Page 20.
  2. The featured picture is courtesy of: iconstudio.jordanville.org/holy_trinity.html.

26 Comments

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  1. Zia Shah

    Christianity a journey from fact to fiction
    A book by Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, Christianity: A Journey from Facts to Fiction has a chapter on Trinity. In this chapter he examines different possibilities in Trinity. He writes:

    When one tries to visualize the inter-relationship of the three constituents of the Christian godhead, the only possible scenarios which arise are as follows: They possessed different phases or aspects of one single person. They were three different persons, sharing eternity among themselves equally. They were three persons with some of their characteristics individual and distinct; not entirely shared by others. They were three persons in one with completely similar characteristics and similar equal powers, merged with each other and with no functions separate from the other. We will consider each of these possibilities in turn.

    The book is online:
    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
    The interesting thing about the doctrine of Trinity is that the more you talk about it the more confusing it gets. No wonder, Søren Aabye Kierkegaard, who crossing the boundaries of philosophy, theology, psychology, and literature, had come to be regarded as a highly significant and influential figure in contemporary thought, had said:

    It is not the business of any Christian writer or preacher to dilute Christianity to suit the general educated public. The doctrine of the incarnation was to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, and so will it always be, for the doctrine not only transcends reason; it the paradox par excellence; and it can be affirmed only by faith, with passionate inwardness and interest. The substitution of reason for faith means the death of Christianity.

    Ref: A history of philosophy – Google Books Resultby Frederick Copleston – 2003 – Philosophy – total 230 pages, on page 155.

  2. Zia Shah

    A testimony of One God from Chemistry

    Sometimes Christian apologists construct frivolous analogies to make their case. One of such absurdities is water, ice and steam. It is frivolous because in this example these three things can never co-exist. They are just banking on the naivety of the audience.What is more interesting in the study of such simple things as water is the fact that it can lead one to the inference that there aught to be a god, who created all this. Some thing as simple as plain water can be a pointer towards the Creator.Here I want to stress the fact that it is not only biology and physics, as I previously said, but every aspect of study of nature, testifies to there being One God and not three. Here I quote a Christian scientist about the elements in chemistry. All the elements follow a single theme, suggesting One Creator. The single theme was so powerful that it actually helped develop the list of all the elements and their eventual discovery. Thomas David Parks writes in an article ‘Plain water will tell you the story’:

    Probably to a chemist the periodic arrangement of the elements is the most arresting. One of the first things a freshman chemistry student learns is the periodicity or order found in the elements. This order has been variously described and classified but we usually credit Mendeleev, the Russian chemist of the last century, with our periodic table. Not only did this arrangement provide a means of studying the known elements and their compounds but it also gave impetus to the search for those elements which had not yet been discovered. Their very existence was postulated by vacant spaces in the orderly arrangement of the table.Chemists today still use the periodic table to aid them in their study of reactions and to predict properties of unknown or new compounds. That they have been successful is sound testimony to the fact that beautiful order exists in the inorganic world.But the order we see around us is not a relentless omnipotence. It is tempered with beneficence — a testimony to the fact that good and pleasure are as much a concern of Divine Intelligence as the immutable laws of Nature. Look around you at the exceptions and deviations that do, in fact, defy the laws of cold rationality.

    Whole of his article which is easily readable and can be accessed at the following link:
    http://www.alislam.org/egazette/articles/Plain-water-200908.pdf

    Incidentally, whenever Christian scientists, positively, talk about God they are talking about God of Islam and Jesus Christ and not Trinitarian God of Pauline Christianity.

  3. Zia Shah

    Trinity: Official Formulas — This is a knol by Dale Tuggy with a lot of information on the issue. He writes:If you ask most Christians what “the doctrine of the Trinity” is, you’ll receive the deer-in-the-headlights look. Beware of glib answers – most web sources are vague, uninformed, partisan, confused, or will quickly jump to controversial analogies or arguments. Best to get it straight from the horse’s mouth. If you belong to a creedal Christian group, they have a statement on the Trinity. You should be able to find it, or something like it below.In theory, all trinitarian believers are committed to all the pronouncements of the ecumenical councils, so start there. More recent statements tend to be very vague – speaking of God “in” three persons, or of three persons “in” God. These are presumably meant as non-technical abbreviations of the classic, older formulas. The central statement is the first: the creed of Nicea was at first controversial, but was affirmed and expanded at Constantinople in 381 CE, and presupposed as a precedent by all later trinitarian creeds.For the rest of the story:http://knol.google.com/k/trinity-official-formulas#

  4. Zia Shah

    When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome
    This is a book by Richard E. Rubenstein:

    Of all the Christological disputes of the early Church, the Arian crisis (or, as this volume demonstrates, crises) that consumed much of the fourth century-and many of its inhabitants-is undoubtedly the most famous and, for Rubenstein, “an American Jew” (p. xii), the most problematic: he believes that there was a “closeness” between Judaism and Christianity that was broken at the conclusion of the Arian crisis when “Jesus became God” (p. xiv).

  5. Zia Shah

    The unequal triad
    There is no way to have a trinity without first separating each of the three individuals and keeping them as equal.We need to first establish that there is a father, a son and a holy ghost. They would have to start off equal in rank and authority.In admitting that the son came from the father, the father would have to be first, and that makes the son, non-eternal.This would make them unequal and incapable of becoming a balanced triad.Scripture supports inequality with Jesus promising salvation only through him. Scripture also has Jesus saying that only the father knows when the end of days is to occur. Clearly, they are not one with the holy ghost.They do not share all the information together. Further more, the Bible tells us that we can blaspheme against the Holy Ghost but allows it against Jesus Christ:

    So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come. (Matthew 12:31-32.)

  6. Zia Shah

    Filioque: yet another twist — Filioque, Latin for “and (from) the Son”, was added in Western Christianity to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, commonly referred to as the Nicene Creed. This insertion emphasizes that Jesus, the Son, is of equal divinity with God, the Father, while the absence of it in Eastern Christianity concentrates on the Father.Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum, et vivificantem: qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.(And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.)The word was first added at the Third Council of Toledo (589) and spread throughout Western Christianity. It has been an ongoing source of conflict between the East and West, contributing to the East-West Schism of 1054 and proving an obstacle to attempts to reunify the two sides.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FilioqueAlso see:http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/different-sects-of-christianity/1qhnnhcumbuyp/171#

  7. Zia Shah

    Christians use the Islamic concept of God in day to day life: Imitation is the best form of flattery — Given the complexity and convolutions of the concept of Trinity in day to day life, Christians use the Islamic concept of God.The Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, describes the Quranic teaching of unity of God, by mentioning that even the non-Muslims especially the Christians have borrowed it from Islam. This reminds us of the saying, ‘imitation is the best form of flattery.’ He writes:“The Holy Quran is replete with wisdom and insights and does not contain any portion of babble or frivolous. It explains every necessary detail and provides for all human needs. It is a miracle from every aspect. I am ever ready to demonstrate the miracle and beauty of the Holy Quran to anyone who denies it. These days, concept of God and genuine understanding of monotheism are under fire. The Christians have written a lot about God, but, whatever genuine account they have given is about the true and the living God of Islam and not about a dead, crucified and a humble god. I can declare it with fullest confidence that whoever, will attempt to write about the attributes of God, his or her hand will be forced to come to the God of Islam. This is because each and every particle of our universe gives testimony of this God and the imprint of the God of Islam is also in every human heart and conscience. So, whenever humans endeavor to find God, they are lead to the concepts of Islam. This also is indeed an amazing miracle.”Malfoozat volume I/V page 52.http://www.alislam.org/urdu/pdf/Malfoozat-v1.pdf

  8. Zia Shah

    Breaking the Cross: Epoch making refutation of dogma of Christianity by the Promised Messiah — Ataul Mujeeb Rashid, Missionary Incharge UK, has wrtiten a very detailed and beautiful book, by collecting excerpts from the writings of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, who is the Promised Messiah, to refute Christianity. Rashid has written this book in Urdu and it would be very worthwhile if some one translates it into English for the benefit of those who do not know Urdu. Here is the link to read a more than a hundred page chapter in refutation of Trinity in Urdu:http://www.alislam.org/urdu/pdf/KasreSaleeb.pdf#page=127

  9. Zia Shah

    Read about the first six Ecumenical Councils — This is in response to the comment below.It is easy to pick up some verses of the Old Testament and force Trinitarian interpretation on them. But, getting out of the maze that is created by the contradictory ideas inherent in Trinity is another matter!A good place to start is to read the account of the first six Ecumenical Councils spread over centuries after the crucifixion of Jesus, may peace be on him. As you look at the convoluted history and the debates it becomes apparent to the wise that Trinity is a confusion that needs to be traded in for the simple creed, “There is no God, but Allah (God the Father)!”A good place to start is the article below and some of my other knols and then Google many of the Ecumenical Councils and get to analyze the debates thoroughly. May God be your Guide:https://www.alislam.org/egazette/articles/Trinity-First-Council-201006.pdf

  10. Zia Shah

    President Thomas Jefferson’s views — A letter to theologian James Smith — December 8, 1822 — elaborates Jefferson’s views on the subject. “Sir, — I have to thank you for your pamphlets on the subject of Unitarianism, and to express my gratification with your efforts for the revival of primitive Christianity in your quarter. No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity; and was among the efficacious doctrines which gave it triumph over the polytheism of the ancients, sickened with the absurdities of their own theology. Nor was the unity of the Supreme Being ousted from the Christian creed by the force of reason, but by the sword of civil government, wielded at the will of the fanatic Athanasius. The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs. And a strong proof of the solidity of the primitive faith, is its restoration, as soon as a nation arises which vindicates to itself the freedom of religious opinion, and its external divorce from the civil authority. The pure and simple unity of the Creator of the universe, is now all but ascendant in the Eastern States; it is dawning in the West, and advancing towards the South; and I confidently expect that the present generation will see Unitarianism become the general religion of the United States. The Eastern presses are giving us many excellent pieces on the subject, and Priestley’s learned writings on it are, or should be, in every hand. In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons gullibility which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.” “I write with freedom, because while I claim a right to believe in one God, if so my reason tells me, I yield as freely to others that of believing in three. Both religions, I find, make honest men, and that is the only point society has any right to look to. Although this mutual freedom should produce mutual indulgence, yet I wish not to be brought in question before the public on this or any other subject, and I pray you to consider me as writing under that trust. I take no part in controversies, religious or political. At the age of eighty, tranquility is the greatest good of life, and the strongest of our desires that of dying in the good will of all mankind. And with the assurance of all my good will to Unitarian and Trinitarian, to Whig and Tory, accept for yourself that of my entire respect.” There are host of additional materials available on this webpage:http://www.brunswickcounty.com/Thomas_Jefferson_and_the_Doctrine_of_the_Trinity-a-1150.html

  11. Zia Shah

    Trinity or a Tetrad! — The old story is that Jesus has two parts, those are welded together some how in a fashion never known in human history before or since and those two parts are married to two additional parts that are not different from the first part yet are different. These four parts are called Trinity and not a Tetrad!This triad or tetrad is a Unity and should be called one and not three or four? This is the old story and in this age of information it is logical to examine this and share new information.

  12. Zia Shah

    Testimony from the Jehovah Witness site against Trinity — I quote what the site has to say about Old Testament and Trinity:WHILE the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, is at least the idea of the Trinity taught clearly in it? For instance, what do the Hebrew Scriptures (“Old Testament”) reveal? The Encyclopedia of Religion admits: “Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.” And the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: “The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament].” Similarly, in his book The Triune God, Jesuit Edmund Fortman admits: “The Old Testament . . . tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . . . There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. . . . Even to see in [the “Old Testament”] suggestions or foreshadowings or ‘veiled signs’ of the trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers.”—Italics ours. An examination of the Hebrew Scriptures themselves will bear out these comments. Thus, there is no clear teaching of a Trinity in the first 39 books of the Bible that make up the true canon of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. Now I quote what the site has to say about New Testament and Trinity:WELL, then, do the Christian Greek Scriptures (“New Testament”) speak clearly of a Trinity? The Encyclopedia of Religion says: “Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.” Jesuit Fortman states: “The New Testament writers . . . give us no formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life and activity in the same Godhead.” The New Encyclopædia Britannica observes: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.” Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity.” The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly states: “The N[ew] T[estament] does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. ‘The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence’ [said Protestant theologian Karl Barth].” Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say nothing about it.”—Origin and Evolution of Religion. Historian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord.”—The Paganism in Our Christianity. Thus, neither the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures nor the canon of 27 inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures provide any clear teaching of the Trinity.http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_03.htm

  13. Zia Shah

    Michael Servetus killed for arguing against Trinity — According to Encyclopedia Britannica:Spanish physician and theologian whose unorthodox teachings led to his condemnation as a heretic by both Protestants and Roman Catholics and to his execution by Calvinists from Geneva.While living in Toulouse, France, Servetus studied law and delved into the problem of the Trinity. In February 1530 he accompanied his patron, the Franciscan Juan de Quintana, to the coronation of Emperor Charles V at Bologna. Distressed by papal ostentation and by the emperor’s deference to the worldly pope, he left his patron and visited Lyon, Geneva, and Basel. At Basel and Strasbourg he met with Reformation leaders John Oecolampadius, Martin Bucer, and Kaspar Schwenckfeld. Servetus published his new ideas on the Trinity in De Trinitatis erroribus libri vii (1531), attacking the orthodox teaching and attempting to form a view of his own, asserting that the Word is eternal, a mode of God’s self-expression, whereas the Spirit is God’s motion or power within the hearts of men. The Son is the union of the eternal Word with the man Jesus. Although both Catholics and Protestants may have had difficulty following Servetus’ involved speculations, what he proposed was clearly odious to them. He therefore published a revised formulation, Dialogorum de Trinitate libri ii (1532).”Michael Servetus.” Encyclopædia Britannica. 2010. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 29 Aug. 2010 .

  14. Zia Shah

    John 14: The Father is greater than me — The chapter 14 of the gospel of John not only speaks against Trinity but also promises of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. Here is the entire chapter from New International Version. First read with your Chrisitan trinitarian lenses, then with the Islamic possibility that Jesus was a noble and beloved prophet of God and then read a third time following Sir Francis Bacon’s advice, “Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.” Here you go:Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. Come now; let us leave.

    • Travis Rotenburger

      “you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” John 14:28This is not a case against the Trinity, but rather affirmation that Jesus was not only fully God, but also fully man. Is God greater than a human? Yes. That much every Abrahamaic faith believes. So when Jesus became fully man and said this, he was a) Honouring thy father and mother by giving all respect and honour to God the Father, as well as affirming that he himself had become the least of these. Furthermore, we get a pretty decent idea of the Trinity from the opening of the gospel of John.John 1:1-5″In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.John 1:10-14He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- children born not of natural descent nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Quite clearly Jesus is there at the beginning. The spirit is sprinkled throught scripture, at Jesus’ baptism, at pentecost, at the tempting, Isaiah’s prophecy of Christ(Isaiah 42:1).

    • Zia Shah

      I am going to myself now and always, I come to my house and am received by myself, it is me and me alone that is I am alone in the house there is no one else in the house, no one. Do I need to repeat, it is me and me not you or he or she!Now, that your brain is rebooted, read Jesus words quoted above:”In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”Jesus is not in the Father’s house, he is going there, the Father is already there, it is his house, Jesus is not part of the Father. Need I continue?

    • Travis Rotenburger

      Please do. The Father’s house is heaven. It is not God himself, but rather a place (The new Jerusalem, Zion) that Jesus speaks of. This is foreshadowing his death and ascension to heaven. How does he know that the place can hold alot of people? He’s been there, alluding to his divine nature.

  15. Zia Shah

    Non-Trinitarian Christian sects! — Some Christians reject mainstream trinitarian theology; such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, the Unitarians, Christadelphians, Church of God General Conference, Socinian; and some elements of Anabaptism do not teach the doctrine of the Trinity at all. In addition Oneness Pentecostals reject the creedal formulation of the Trinity, that there are three distinct and eternal persons in one being, instead believing that there is one God, a singular spirit who manifests himself in many different ways, including as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

  16. Zia Shah

    Clovis I and Arianism — Clovis was converted to Catholicism, as opposed to the Arian Christianity common among the Goths who ruled most of Gaul at the time, at the instigation of his wife, Clotilde, a Burgundian Gothic princess who was a Catholic in spite of the Arianism which surrounded her at court.From Wikipedia about Clovis I

  17. Zia Shah

    King David glorifying God the Creator, without knowing an iota about Jesus — In the Psalms we can read time and again, how the King or the Prophet David glorifies, God the Creator or God the Father, without knowing anything about Jesus, as he preceeded him by seven centuries. David prays:LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory in the heavens. Through the praise of children and infants you have established a stronghold against your enemies, to silence the foe and the avenger. When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, What is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?(Psalm 8:1-4, New International Version)To know God, we do not need to necessarily know about Jesus Christ and he forms no part of Divinity, as we can see His Majesty in the prayers of David, without any reference to Jesus!

  18. civitate

    Again this website has been caught spreading misinformation. There is no evidence that anything to do with the trinity was discussed at nicea as this was a belief that was already believed in. What was the issue was weather jesus was a lesser created diety as Arius postulated. was christ eternal or created lesser diety? that was the issue. The church already taught and believed the trinity

    The Didache

    “After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

    Irenaeus

    “For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

    Tertullian

    “We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. . . . This rule of faith has been present since the beginning of the gospel, before even the earlier heretics” (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).

    Ignatius of Antioch

    “[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

    “For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

    Origen

    “For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).

    “No, rejecting every suggestion of corporeality, we hold that the Word and the Wisdom was begotten out of the invisible and incorporeal God, without anything corporal being acted upon . . . the expression which we employ, however that there was never a time when he did not exist is to be taken with a certain allowance. For these very words ‘when’ and ‘never’ are terms of temporal significance, while whatever is said of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to be understood as transcending all time, all ages” (ibid.).

    All this long before the council of nicea in 325. get your facts straight

  19. acai berry

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